Author Topic: Are we all living in a simulated world ?  (Read 15318 times)

Offline skinwalker

  • Admin
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2099
  • Karma: +47/-0
    • www.skinwalkerranch.org
Are we all living in a simulated world ?
« on: October 27, 2012, 04:30:55 PM »
It is a question that has been debated by philosophers and scientists alike for thousands of years.

The idea that the world we see around us is actually a complex computer simulation gained popular recognition following "The Matrix", but outside of the film is there a chance that there is any truth to this idea ? Scientists have been attempting to come up with a way to prove that the world we know and see is actually real and may have come up with a novel way to accomplish this.

The technique involves the use of mathematical models to reproduce a theoretical simulated reality. While there is still a long way to go, scientists are confident that by building a simulation of our universe it will be possible to determine if such an exercise is possible and if, therefore, there is a chance that we ourselves may be living within one.


Professor Silas Beane, a theoretical physicist at the University of Bonn in Germany said that his group of scientists have developed a way to test the 'simulation hypothesis'.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/9635166/Scientists-believe-they-have-come-close-to-solving-the-Matrix-theory.html

Offline Kryptid

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 91
  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Are we all living in a simulated world ?
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2012, 04:24:15 AM »
Their proposal assumes that the "real" universe that our simulated universe would be inside of has the same basic characteristics (such as the laws of physics and number of dimensions) as our own, only that it is much, much larger. This, of course, may not be the case at all. If Pac-man came to the conclusion that the "real" world was just a larger version of his own (two dimensional and pixelated) he would be very wrong. Their test might be able to rule out certain kinds of simulations, but it can't rule out all of them.

Offline skinwalker

  • Admin
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2099
  • Karma: +47/-0
    • www.skinwalkerranch.org
Re: Are we all living in a simulated world ?
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2012, 02:46:54 PM »
where does it say they are making those assumptions?  they are looking for infinite anomolies is my understanding from reading several other sources i have not published.  A finite processor (and all simulated realities must have some form of processor) is finite in nature and cannot handle an infinite calculation.    I was reading that all of human history can be accomished stored/simulated by 1043 computations and that a computer the size of the earth could handle 1092 computations per second.

Offline skinwalker

  • Admin
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2099
  • Karma: +47/-0
    • www.skinwalkerranch.org
Re: Are we all living in a simulated world ?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2012, 12:14:35 AM »
just posted this scientific paper i found which about sums up the theory and is easy to read.  Makes sense to me.

http://skinwalkerranch.org/images/vrtheory.pdf

Offline Kryptid

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 91
  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Are we all living in a simulated world ?
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2012, 11:17:40 PM »
I apologize for taking so long to get back to this. I think I understand the issue better now.

That was a very interesting read, Skinwalker. However, one of the concerns about that theory is the fact that the properties of computer simulations that we run are highly dependent on the properties of this same Universe that we run them in. To say that our Universe might be a simulated reality because it is similar in nature to computations might be something of reversal of thinking; perhaps it is computations which are like the Universe and not the Universe which is like computations. After all, any computer simulations we can ever run will be shaped and limited by the mathematical, logical and physical properties which our Universe imposes on them. If the Universe's fundamental attributes were different, then so would be our computers.

The argument about the impossibility of an objective reality arising from nothingness only pushes the problem back when it tries to answer the question by proposing that our reality is virtual. If our "virtual" reality was created by some "real" object in an objective reality, then where did that object and its resulting reality come from?

I'm not saying that I don't think it's possible that we could be living in a simulation. In fact, I think it would be rather interesting if it were true (especially if we could figure out how to "hack" this world and create effects to our desires). I think that it is a potentially acceptable idea even in light of my belief in God. It could be conceivable that this world is a "virtual reality" created by God who inhabits a truly objective reality (or perhaps He is the objective reality somehow?). In that sense, God is more "real" than we are. After all, the Bible says that God created the world, but not what method He used to create it. Just my thoughts.

Offline skinwalker

  • Admin
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2099
  • Karma: +47/-0
    • www.skinwalkerranch.org
Re: Are we all living in a simulated world ?
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2012, 11:48:19 PM »
"That was a very interesting read, Skinwalker. However, one of the concerns about that theory is the fact that the properties of computer simulations that we run are highly dependent on the properties of this same Universe that we run them in. "

not necessarily but most likely.

"If the Universe's fundamental attributes were different, then so would be our computers."

 I dont understand what your trying to say.

"our "virtual" reality was created by some "real" object in an objective reality, then where did that object and its resulting reality come from?"

Great question! but it still fails to dispute VR Theory.  The higher level world could in all likeliness be a unaware simulation itself.

I think that it is a potentially acceptable idea even in light of my belief in God.
I had the same struggles with this theory.  Based on one night of deep deep...thought.. an answer came to me that the creators of this reality have just as much knowledge of God as we do.  They even falsely believe if they were to erase us from this reality that we would forever be forgotten.  The truth is that we are eternal beings and that this multiverse goes far far deeper than we could begin to imagine , however at the end of all of these reality bubbles is a one true source or "God"
the origional arcitech.

 I

Offline skinwalker

  • Admin
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2099
  • Karma: +47/-0
    • www.skinwalkerranch.org
Re: Are we all living in a simulated world ?
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2012, 11:49:34 PM »
Please take a moment and download this research paper and read through it, its actually an enjoyable read.  It opened my eyes to this possability and answered alot of unanswerable questions about the paranormal for me. http://skinwalkerranch.org/images/vrtheory.pdf

Offline Kryptid

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 91
  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Are we all living in a simulated world ?
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2012, 04:11:40 AM »
Please take a moment and download this research paper and read through it, its actually an enjoyable read.  It opened my eyes to this possability and answered alot of unanswerable questions about the paranormal for me. http://skinwalkerranch.org/images/vrtheory.pdf
I did read it. That's what I was referring to when I said "That was a very interesting read".

Quote
I dont understand what your trying to say.
All I was saying is that since we have to build our computers in accordance with the laws of physics of our Universe, the functional properties of our computers are directly dependent on the properties of this very same Universe it was constructed inside of. I imagine if our world was infinitely divisible (no atoms or subatomic particles), computers would be vastly different. Conservation of information certainly wouldn't exist in such a world, since any given piece of matter could be cut up into more and more pieces without limit.

To me at least, it would make sense for an objective reality to be quantized and finite. That makes things more..."tidy"...in terms of mathematics.

Quote
Great question! but it still fails to dispute VR Theory.  The higher level world could in all likeliness be a unaware simulation itself.
It could be, but then where did the world which is simulating that world come from? That pushes the problem back two steps instead of really answering it. At some point, an objective reality must exist which either has always existed or came out of nothing.

Back on the theoretical idea at hand...if we lived in a simulation, might there be times when we could observe "glitches" in the program? What would those look like? Could paranormal phenomena be caused by glitches? Could the simulation which we are contained inside of "crash"? Could the simulation have been rebooted multiple times by now? Would there be any evidence of such reboots?
« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 04:15:56 AM by Kryptid »

Offline skinwalker

  • Admin
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2099
  • Karma: +47/-0
    • www.skinwalkerranch.org
Re: Are we all living in a simulated world ?
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2012, 05:24:32 AM »
Kryptid I beleive what is occuring at Skinwalker Ranch are prime examples of these supposed "glitches in the system".  Hence my obsessive interest.

Offline Kryptid

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 91
  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Are we all living in a simulated world ?
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2012, 07:00:54 AM »
So you believe we live in a simulated reality?

Don't think I've ever met anyone of that belief before. Not that it's a bad thing; so long as you have your reasons for believing it.

Offline skinwalker

  • Admin
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2099
  • Karma: +47/-0
    • www.skinwalkerranch.org
Re: Are we all living in a simulated world ?
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2012, 03:44:56 PM »
yes, and quantum mechanics confirms this notion via the role of the observer and the photon experiment.  Nothing in the world exists or is solid until you observe it.  To me this is clear evidence of a simulated reality.  Also the fact that the universe itself is finite, and expanding faster than the speed of light is interpreted by myself as a program which has turned on.  Photos being cookie cutters and coming from the same mold is another give away.  Personal "alien" like experiences in my life has shown this reality to be false and easily stripped away and reconstructed  by whatever is operating things from the other side.

Offline skinwalker

  • Admin
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2099
  • Karma: +47/-0
    • www.skinwalkerranch.org
Re: Are we all living in a simulated world ?
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2012, 04:15:29 AM »
just finished watching "The Thirteenth Floor" i watched this as a young adult and I think it helped inspire me.  Anyone else see this?  Pre-Matrix thinking.  To this day i'm looking to find that road which leads to the edge of our reality and witnesses it myself.

Offline skinwalker

  • Admin
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2099
  • Karma: +47/-0
    • www.skinwalkerranch.org
Re: Are we all living in a simulated world ?
« Reply #12 on: December 31, 2012, 05:38:23 PM »
I just read this article which suggests the evidence is weighing heavily that we in fact are living in a virtual reality.

http://www.transcend.ws/?p=3020

[youtube]q1LCVknKUJ4[/youtube]
Quote
Has James Gates Discovered Computer Code in String Theory Equations? Welcome to The Matrix!
Posted on March 25, 2012
▲ ▲ ▲


The Matrix is in programmed control & continues inexorably in the background, whether you are aware of it or not.

Dr. S. James Gates, Jr., a theoretical physicist, the John S. Toll Professor of Physics at the University of Maryland, and the Director of The Center for String & Particle Theory, is reporting that certain string theory, super-symmetrical  equations, which describe the fundamental nature of the Universe and reality, contain embedded computer codes. These codes are digital data in the form of 1′s and 0′s. Not only that, these codes are the same as what make web browsers work and are error-correction codes! Gates says, “We have no idea what these ‘things’ are doing there”.

Gates discloses in the second video below, as an aside in a formal interview, that some of his research can be interpreted that we do live in a virtual reality. He describes this as “mind-blowing” and similar to the movie “The Matrix”! Further, he adds, that if someone suspected they did live in a virtual reality, then detecting computer codes would be a way to confirm. He concludes with finding these computer codes in equations that describe our world: “that’s what I just proposed!”.

What to make of this? There are two issues: 1) if String Theory will ultimately be a viable and therefore proven model of reality and 2) if so, whether embedded coding is in fact within the related verified equations. Michio Kaku has stated “String Theory Is the Only Game in Town” because it is the only testable theory available.

We have argued on this website that the Universe is a virtual reality. If true, then any theory of reality should eventually confirm this, if the theory has staying power and does not succumb to an early death. Accordingly, time is on the side of the simulation hypothesis to be verified first through theory and then via experiments in the long-run. Technology to provide the means to test that the Universe is a virtual reality is the next step.

Strange Computer Code Discovered Concealed In Superstring Equations! “Doubly-even self-dual linear binary error-correcting block code,” first invented by Claude Shannon in the 1940′s, has been discovered embedded WITHIN the equations of superstring theory! Why does nature have this? What errors does it need to correct? What is an ‘error’ for nature? More importantly what is the explanation for this freakish discovery? Your guess is as good as mine.

more info on this general theory http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_hypothesis
« Last Edit: December 31, 2012, 06:10:42 PM by skinwalker »

Offline ninjamaster73

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 236
  • Karma: +1/-0
  • Its your life you decide what you believe.
Re: Are we all living in a simulated world ?
« Reply #13 on: December 31, 2012, 06:39:24 PM »
Just read the theory and while it is very interesting and makes you wonder...I still believe in the dimension theory than that. The theory says that an atomic clock is faster in higher places than closer to earth due to gravity. But gravity is only affecting the tool that measures time but not time itself. I think we're all living amongst different worlds and different times all at the same time....Some people are gifted with seeing things that others cannot and that's due to something in their brain that is different from the rest that gives them that access to something unknown. Also dogs only see in black and white and everything for them is view as flat. So basically we're living with fellow beings that basically see the world differently. Like the dogs they see it 2 dimensionally and we regular humans see it in color and 3 dimensionally and our fellow gifted humans see it however they see it. So maybe while you're sitting at your desk reading this....someone or something else is at their desk in the same spot reading something but within their dimension or maybe they're not in a desk but in a strange jungle or maybe some strange environment that we have yet to see. In your mind you can be anyone or anything....there is no limit. Thats why I say that the methods to reach other dimension is through the mind not a mechanical vessell. Thats why the Buddhist monks fast and meditate for weeks on end dil they're basically "dilusional" and they have visions and maybe by subjecting your body to those torments is that you're able to temporarily view something that only you can see. Same with the American Indians they would fast and dance and slash their skin with bones or knives for several days til a vision came to them...The Matrix theory states that worlds can be created by making a program that designs something through numbers and symbols. But this requires a monitor and this requires a processor or computer...and really if you ask yourself if you didn't "view" this virtual reality with your eyes and interpreted by you brain....does it really exist? Its all basically pixelation and colors arranged in a certain manner to produce an artifical rendering of something. It doesn't have feelings or personal characteristics as they are programmed to just do certain things. Who would in their right mind write programs for over a billion people on Earth which if they're like me have some ultra boring lives.....I don't know... I see where they are coming from but it just don't click with me but thats just my opinion and nothing else.

Offline Kryptid

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 91
  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Are we all living in a simulated world ?
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2012, 09:28:20 PM »
Who ever said dogs see only in two-dimensions?