Author Topic: time as an illusion  (Read 10449 times)

Offline skinwalker

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time as an illusion
« on: May 16, 2011, 05:37:55 PM »
my first slips into madness i think, i started pondering how i always tell people how i research the paranormal because i had some haunting like experience as a child.  Even had a one way discussion with a ghost or entity when i was very young.  I always said how this inspired me to look behind the veil and learn more.  Well.... the more I learn about how time is an illusion i wonder if i've been saying this scenario all wrong.  I mean most children didnt have these hauntings happen to them...why me?  Well if time doesnt exist and i've already lead my entire life from start to finish at the age of 8 (when this first started happening)... then what if the things i am currently doing now, the places i am visiting, and the research i have conducted is the REASON WHY i was haunted at the age of 8?  I'm 35 now and i wonder if my current actions have caused the younger me at 8 to be haunted, rather than the hauntings at 8 caused me to investigate the paranormal.  Are you following?...  feel i'm pretty far off the traditional reasoning at this conclusion, but i think it may have some merit

Offline Jarble J

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Re: time as an illusion
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2011, 10:32:12 PM »
That has got me thinking swell let me ponder this

Offline skinwalker

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Re: time as an illusion
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2011, 05:56:29 AM »
thanks its been on my mind lately

Darryl

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Re: time as an illusion
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2012, 05:05:29 AM »
I've often thought  about time as an illusion experienced by perceivers on "this side" of eternity. Follow me for a moment as I lay out a train of thought:

OK, imagine a circle, within this circle is contained the one-ness, the unity of "All". Just pretend for a moment... within this circle exists All, and All is One. Maybe this All, this One, is the inherent intelligence of the Universe... God, if you will. You might say that "All is contained within the singular unity of the Divine Intelligence, or God. Necessarily, since All is one within our imagined circle, then there is ONLY the One... no distance can be contained within because it's all One. No relationship can exist because All is One, there is no duality to relate to. No movement can exist because All is One. There's no "other" place to go. Since there is no distance, no relationship between One and "other", no motion or movement within the One-ness, then there can be no perception of "Time".

From the perspective of the One, Eternal, "Uni"-verse, all that ever was, is, or will be, exists in eternal "now"-ness. There is no other. Just pure, pristine, divine Awareness. Let's imagine that this Eternal Divine Awareness decides it desires "experiences", which would be impossible in it's current state of eternal "One"-ness. So, from the Divine Intelligence of the "Uni"-verse, a creative expression occurs... let's imagine it utters a Word, which is actually a Vibration.

Instantly, duality- and even multiplicity- comes into being! There is, for the first time, "other", the expressor and the expressed, the perceiver and the perceived. As the vibrational frequency travels forward, "movement" comes into existence! So, now, there is multiplicity rather than oneness, there is now "distance" as this vibrational frequency travels forth from it's source. Along with distance and movement, relationship is born! So, from this single creative impulse from the Divine One-ness of the Universe, all manner of things, perceptions, and realities vibrate into existence.

Imagine that the "One"-ness that existed in our originally described circle still continues to exist, eternal, unchangeable. However, there now, also, co-exists a myriad of other dimensions of reality, all vibrating away- existing on their own vibrational levels. As this creational process continues to move, endless beings come into existence. The paradox is that all of these beings, while remaining ever connected with- (one with)- the original Divine Oneness, develop organs of perception that are in harmony with the particular, vibrational reality into which they emerged into existence. So, they perceive "reality" with the limited (human? animal? plant? Alien?) consciousness that their tools of perception (eyes, ears, smell, feel, etc.) can perceive. As we all know, there's a whole lot more reality that we exist within than we can ever perceive with our senses. But just because we don't experience reality that lies outside our narrow bandwidth of perception has no bearing, whatsoever, on "Reality-As-It-Actually-Is".

Enter "dimensionality". Which consists not only of "other places, times, etc.", but the spaces and realities that co-exist in the right-here-and-now, but are outside the vibrational harmony that our senses are calibrated to perceive. I would imagine that "this side of eternity" is intimately related to our human experience as allowed by our limited tools of perception. There can be other dimensions of "time", "space", "size", "distance", etc., and I would venture to bet there are other dimensions of existence which we don't even have the capabilities to perceive or even imagine.

To me, this understanding of time, and space, and dimension ties into every imaginable field of inquiry- paranormal, UFO, freaky physics, whatever. In particular, the phenomenon reported from the Skinwalker Ranch, and other places like it, are fascinating because they force us to stretch the bounds of our usual perception and what we consider to be "reality". I can assure you, Reality is not what we think it is. Perhaps, the phenomenon we are all so fascinated with on Skinwalker Ranch is nothing more than visits into our perceived vibrational level of reality from beings that either have figured out a way to cross-over into other dimensional vibratory levels than they currently exist in, whether through (alien) technology, or through a perfectly natural (alien) nature which allows them modes of perception and/or capabilities that we can't even dream of from these organic, physical instruments we inhabit called our bodies.

Skinwalkers post about the illusion of time gave rise to these thoughts I have been carrying around for quite some time, excuse the pun.

Offline skinwalker

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Re: time as an illusion
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2012, 05:17:37 AM »
statements such as what has been posted above are the reason this site was created.  Statements/truths such as this bring us closer to an understanding of the mystery of consciousness.  Thank you for your enlightening post.  The "Ranch" is more than just a parnaormal hunting ground its about enlightening others to universal truths.

Offline Kryptid

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Re: time as an illusion
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2012, 11:54:55 PM »
We know that time is not an absolute, fixed thing. Relativity tells us as much. Time passes more quickly in free space than it does in a gravitational field. It also passes more slowly for those who travel at great speed. The order of events can even be different depending on your frame of reference. Beyond physics, human perception is no doubt limited in terms of what we can and cannot detect (including our sense of time). We probably have many discoveries yet to make about it. If time is illusory, then space must have illusory properties as well (since both are defined as aspects of one single thing according to Einstein).

If the entities can travel through time or see the future, I suppose it's possible. If they are four-dimensional, then they might be able to "step back" out of our reality and see all of history layed out before them. Past, present and future become meaningless terms.

I do have to ask, do you believe that your current interests were spawned by your experience at 8? If so, wouldn't that make any such hypothesis a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy? Where did the original motivation for becoming a paranormal researcher come from? Did you grow up in an area known for strange phenomena?

Offline skinwalker

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Re: time as an illusion
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2012, 12:57:42 AM »
"“Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute." -Einstein

there really is alot to that fun statement, its deeper than it first appears.

he also said stated "Time and space and gravitation have no separate existence from matter."
« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 01:16:16 AM by skinwalker »

Offline skinwalker

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Re: time as an illusion
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2012, 01:09:12 AM »
I do have to ask, do you believe that your current interests were spawned by your experience at 8? If so, wouldn't that make any such hypothesis a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy? Where did the original motivation for becoming a paranormal researcher come from? Did you grow up in an area known for strange phenomena?

I believe the point i was trying to make is that if time is an illusion we exist at all states of age at once.  Thus it is possible that my actions at the ranch here in the future may have had the consequence of potentially gone back into time, haunting me as an 8 year old child, rather than a 8 year old child having a experience which infused a burning desire to unravel the mysteries of that which haunts our nightmares.  Since time is an illusion, it is entirely possible my meddling on the ranch has caused great angst to my younger self.  This bothers me when i consider that possability.  Whatever is out there is not human, and has demonstrated an ability to move both outside of time and space.  Even as I type this very line I hear heavy footsteps creeking the boards behind me in my empty home....

I also believe in a multiverse, one in which every decision you make creates a multitude of potential outcomes, and you pick all outcomes at once and just happen to be in the here and now of one of several possible outcomes.  A separate universe creates another copy of itself and bubbles off depending on each decision you make throughout life.  There could literally be billions of separate universes based on the quantum probabilities of each decision made (or failed to make) throughout life.  Thus a entity which could "see into the future" would have a massive problem ahead of itself in that which future will be my future, or at least the future i consider to be the "here and now".  Have I lost you on this concept?  

« Last Edit: December 23, 2012, 01:17:31 AM by skinwalker »

Darryl

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Re: time as an illusion
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2012, 02:43:22 AM »
Kryptid said: "If time is illusory, then space must have illusory properties as well".

skinwalker added a quote from Einstein: "Time and space and gravitation have no separate existence from matter."


Exactly! All being interrelated and interpenetrating, even matter has illusory properties, and also, matter is free of many of the "realities" we project into it. Did you ever look at a mundane object, say, a chair, and wonder "What the hell is that? What does it really look like?". Since human perception is a very short yardstick with which to measure reality, there's no telling what things really are. I bet it's incredible to perceive them without limitation!

The way we humans perceive requires location and relationship... can you imagine what it would be like to perceive over and above our human perceptual qualities? What a mind blower that would be. One thing I try to do to untrain my perceptual habits is to pay deep attention to when I am "projecting reality" rather than just perceiving it without any conceptual overlay. Let me explain this more clearly:

Think of a simple object, let's say, a cigarette. There it is in the palm of your hand. As you are holding it, looking at it, I come up and ask "Can you prove to me that cigarette really exists?". You may raise an eyebrow to me after asking such a silly question. Of course it exists... here it is, right in the palm of my hand. A reasonable answer, but let's look closer, more deeply. What is that object in your hand? Looking very deeply we could say, "Well, there's paper wrapped around tobacco and a filter". Let's look closely at the paper... is there anything inherently "cigarette" about the paper? No, it's actually processed wood pulp from a tree. Is there anything inherently "cigarette" about the tobacco? No, it's actually ground up leaves from a plant. Is there anything inherently "cigarette" about the filter? No, it's actually cotton processed into the shape and form of a filter. So, looking deeply, we can deduce that there is nothing in your hand that is actually "cigarette", and in fact, "cigarette-ness" only exists as a concept in your mind, which you then project into this object in your hand. Without projecting this conceptual framework onto this conglomeration of objects (paper, tobacco, cotton), the object would not exist as a cigarette at all. If you had been born on a remote, isolated island where there had never been a cigarette and suddenly you found one on the ground, you would have no idea that you were supposed to pick it up and put it in your mouth, light it with fire, and suck smoke through it. You might just as well eat the thing.

Now, take that practice of looking deeply and apply it to every single thing you possibly can. Is a chair a chair in reality or does chairness only exist in your mind? Look deeply into yourself. Does Darryl exist, or is he just another conceptual framework I was indoctrinated into believing was a real thing? Is anger real? Is love real? What are they? I'll tell you, folks, reality is not what we think it is! haha.

Offline skinwalker

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Re: time as an illusion
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2012, 03:06:45 AM »
can you think in the reverse?  look at a collection of disorganized matter and attribute a singular value to it, or would this defeat the point of the exercise?

I guess when trying to imagine extra dimensions above our own, the best technique is to understand the dimensions BELOW our current one.  Perhaps the same is true as I look at this pen and see nothing but a collection of photos which have temporarily organized themselves into matter by the mere act of me observing them, and seperated into several polymers, ink, and metalic alloys.  the moment I look away it becomes a wave form, and vanishes from reality as seperate forms of matter.


Offline Kryptid

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Re: time as an illusion
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2012, 10:49:52 PM »
Yeah, I understand all of this. I've been big into physics for a lot of my life. If you want to get down to the nitty gritty, everything we see and experience is just a complex conglomeration of subatomic particles (or their probability distributions) or superstrings (if string theory is correct). I would like to think that what we consider as subatomic particles are actually "knots" or "defects" in space-time of some sort, which would go along with the previous quote of "Time and space and gravitation have no separate existence from matter."

Offline skinwalker

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Re: time as an illusion
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2012, 11:46:36 PM »
Quote
we consider as subatomic particles are actually "knots" or "defects" in space-time of some sort

can you please elaborate?  Does this by any chance fall into Matrix/Virtual Realtiy Theory?

Darryl

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Re: time as an illusion
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2012, 12:12:41 AM »
skinwalker asked, "can you think in the reverse?  look at a collection of disorganized matter and attribute a singular value to it, or would this defeat the point of the exercise?"


I think that we humans habitually do just what you describe in your question every waking, perceiving minute of the day. It's become so automatic, so "agreed upon" by us all, we have contributed in great part to constructing "reality-as-we-perceive-it" which very often keeps us from perceiving "reality-as-it-actually-is". In my humble opinion, looking deeply into things to perceive them as they actually are, rather than continuing to assign and project into reality meaning based upon our pre-programmed perceptual framework is a much more valuable exercise in consciousness. The deeper you look, the more you find yourself in the "strange, pure, land of "reality-as-it-is", at least as close as we can get to it through human perception. Reality, in Truth, is empty of our projections, however, we experience reality very differently due to our preconceived conceptual framework.

For instance, what if the "anomolies" of the Skinwalker Ranch are not actually anomolous at all? What if they're not even "other-dimensional"? What if they're perfectly natural occurences from this very same dimension we find ourselves in? Perhaps the "anomolies" only exist within the context of human experience and perception, being ill-equipped as it is to comprehend "Reality-As-It-Actually-Is".

Darryl

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Re: time as an illusion
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2012, 04:29:08 AM »
I just finished reading "Hunt For The Skinwalker", and I was surprised to see some comments very poignant to this ongoing conversation. I thought I would share it with everyone. On page 264, John Mack- brilliant Harvard psychiatrist and Pulitzer Prize winner says:

"Taken together, these phenomena tell us many things about ourselves and the universe that challenge the dominant materialist paradigm. They reveal that our understanding of reality is extremely limited, the cosmos is more mysterious than we have imagined, there are other intelligences all about (some of which seem able to reach us), consciousness itself may be the primary creative force in the universe, and our knowledge of the physical properties of the physical world is far from complete. The emerging picture is a cosmos that is an interconnected harmonic web, vibrating with creativity and intelligence, in which separateness is an illusion".

This sounds exactly like what I was describing in my first post above. I was so delighted to find this quote in the Skinwalker book just as we have been discussing it. I found another quote at the bottom of page 264 which continues onto page 265:

"No phenomenon really breaks the laws of science. A new phenomenon may create a disturbance in the status quo, it may open doors toward establishing new theories, and in doing so it may force scientists who are willing to venture into uncharted territory to break truly new ground". 

To me, this kind of fits in with my comments on understanding how we create perceived reality often by projecting our conceptual framework onto a canvas (reality) that is, in actuality, free of all of our projected overlay. I think the more we recognize our own preconceived notions of everything the more we will be able to find space within our own consciousness and reality-as-it-actually-is, and from that space perhaps gain meaningful insight into phenomenon and reality, not to mention our very selves.

Offline Kryptid

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Re: time as an illusion
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2012, 05:30:23 AM »
can you please elaborate?  Does this by any chance fall into Matrix/Virtual Realtiy Theory?

It's not really a part of the Simulation Hypothesis. There are different ways I might be able to describe this. One would be to liken space-time to an ocean of water and all of the subatomic particles in it are bits of ice. In that sense, subatomic particles are "made" of space-time or are some altered state of space-time. Another example might be to imagine space-time as a giant web of strings tied together, with each subatomic particle manifesting itself as a vibration which travels from one string to another as it moves and interacts with other vibrations (other particles). My basic premise is that subatomic particles are not really fundamental in themselves, but are instead a consequence of space-time constantly changing itself on a subatomic level.