Author Topic: consciousness dmt and the afterlife  (Read 15392 times)

Offline skinwalker

  • Admin
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2099
  • Karma: +47/-0
    • www.skinwalkerranch.org
consciousness dmt and the afterlife
« on: January 16, 2013, 03:05:04 AM »
Quote
In 1976, Harrison and colleagues showed that mescaline and colchicine bind purified microtubule protein, in support of the hypothesis that hallucinogens interfere with microtubules.

Quote
American Dr Stuart Hameroff and British physicist Sir Roger Penrose developed a quantum theory of consciousness asserting that our souls are contained inside structures called microtubules which live within our brain cells.

Their idea stems from the notion of the brain as a biological computer, "with 100 billion neurons and their axonal firings and synaptic connections acting as information networks".

Dr Hameroff, Professor Emeritus at the Departments of Anesthesiology and Psychology and Director of the Centre of Consciousness Studies at the University of Arizona, and Sir Roger have been working on the theory since 1996.

They argue that our experience of consciousness is the result of quantum gravity effects inside these microtubules - a process they call orchestrated objective reduction (Orch-OR).

In a near-death experience the microtubules lose their quantum state but the information within them is not destroyed. Or in layman's terms, the soul does not die but returns to the universe.

Dr Hameroff explained the theory at length in the Morgan Freeman-narrated documentary "Through the Wormhole", which was recently aired in the US by the Science Channel.

The quantum soul theory is now trending worldwide, thanks to stories published this week by The Huffington Post and the Daily Mail, which have generated thousands of readers comments and social media shares.

"Let's say the heart stops beating, the blood stops flowing, the microtubules lose their quantum state," Dr Hameroff said.

"The quantum information within the microtubules is not destroyed, it can't be destroyed, it just distributes and dissipates to the universe at large.

"If the patient is resuscitated, revived, this quantum information can go back into the microtubules and the patient says 'I had a near death experience'."

In the event of the patient's death, it was "possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body indefinitely - as a soul".

Dr Hameroff believes new findings about the role quantum physics plays in biological processes, such as the navigation of birds, adds weight to the theory.


http://www.news.com.au/news/quantum-scientists-offer-proof-soul-exists/story-fnenjnc3-1226507686757
more info on the OR Theory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orchestrated_objective_reduction
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 03:07:20 AM by skinwalker »

Offline Kryptid

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 91
  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: consciousness dmt and the afterlife
« Reply #1 on: January 17, 2013, 06:15:59 AM »
I'm not sure why quantum gravity would need to be pulled into the theory...

I also don't think that quantum information can exist without some material representative to carry the information. At least not in the this Universe. Electric charge can't be divorced from electrically-charge particles. Gravity cannot be divorced from mass. Therefore, I don't think our souls are "quantum ghosts" that can float around outside of the matter in our bodies when we die. Any quantum states in the brain would evolve the same way the matter in the brain itself does after death. As cells and organelles break down, the quantum states change to match the new phase.

Offline skinwalker

  • Admin
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2099
  • Karma: +47/-0
    • www.skinwalkerranch.org
Re: consciousness dmt and the afterlife
« Reply #2 on: January 17, 2013, 06:10:53 PM »
I'm not sure why quantum gravity would need to be pulled into the theory...

I also don't think that quantum information can exist without some material representative to carry the information. At least not in the this Universe. Electric charge can't be divorced from electrically-charge particles. Gravity cannot be divorced from mass. Therefore, I don't think our souls are "quantum ghosts" that can float around outside of the matter in our bodies when we die. Any quantum states in the brain would evolve the same way the matter in the brain itself does after death. As cells and organelles break down, the quantum states change to match the new phase.

this is really something to consider.  I guess the key element is the quantum information would not cease to exist , however your saying it would logically change its matrix after death to match the state of the surrounding cells?  I was curious if you could explain why the quantum ghost  theory is unlikely

Offline Kryptid

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 91
  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: consciousness dmt and the afterlife
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2013, 09:11:24 PM »
Because the quantum state describes physical objects. If the physical object it represents has decayed or been cremated, how can the quantum states which describe that system possibly still represent a living human being? To say that the information still represents a functional human being would imply that quantum states cannot be changed by outside forces. If that were the case, then all of the matter in our bodies wouldn't represent a living human anyway, since all of the matter that makes it up ultimately existed in a nonliving system at some point in the past (trace minerals in the soil, water from rivers, carbon dioxide from the air, etc.).

Also, if it were true of humans, why wouldn't it be true of other systems as well? If you take a piece of paper and burn it to ashes, is it sensible to assume that a "quantum ghost" of the original paper still exists? Just like humans, the paper is made of quantum states. On the subatomic scale, the particles can't "tell" whether they make up a living being or not.

Offline skinwalker

  • Admin
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2099
  • Karma: +47/-0
    • www.skinwalkerranch.org
Re: consciousness dmt and the afterlife
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2013, 05:31:41 AM »
Quote
If the physical object it represents has decayed or been cremated, how can the quantum states which describe that system possibly still represent a living human being?
My elementary understanding is that the authors of OR Theory do not believe that the quantum states do represent the living human being after death, however they do represent a form of consciousness that continues potentially eternally and becomes merged yet individualized from the universe post death. 

However, the quantum state would no longer be in a state representative of the 3 dimensional phsyical makeup of the priorly deceased human being.

« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 05:34:49 AM by skinwalker »

Offline skinwalker

  • Admin
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2099
  • Karma: +47/-0
    • www.skinwalkerranch.org
Re: consciousness dmt and the afterlife
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2013, 05:37:14 AM »
Quote
Also, if it were true of humans, why wouldn't it be true of other systems as well? If you take a piece of paper and burn it to ashes, is it sensible to assume that a "quantum ghost" of the original paper still exists

My answer would be yes.  information cannot be lost, i believe this is a universal rule of physics.  The paper would continue as a quantum ghost and possibly be imprinted holographically on the edge of the universe.

Offline Kryptid

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 91
  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: consciousness dmt and the afterlife
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2013, 02:00:18 AM »
Information is conserved, yes, but it can and does change form and often. The same is true of matter and energy.

I don't see any particular reason to believe that a conscious mind must somehow be conserved by the laws of physics. We lose consciousness whenever we go to sleep at night anyway, so it's not something that must exist perpetually once it is created. If it isn't even conserved in dreamless sleep or a coma (when the brain is intact), how can we rely on it being conserved by quantum spookiness upon death (when it may not be intact)?